In this episode, The Gang and I examine the cards that we've banned or might want to ban in our local groups, and the picks might just surprise you.
After all, THIS IS THE STACK!
GRANDPA GROWTH'S PICK
You'll notice I have given a thumbs down to my own card, indicating that I do not, in fact, believe it should be banned. I would hazard a guess that I thumbs down more of my own cards than anyone else here on the blog. I have no idea why I feel so strongly about cards that I really don't play that much, but...c'est le vie.
This is a particularly interesting topic for me because I am such a strong proponent of not ever banning cards for any reason and am a harsh critic of the EDHRC banned list as an institution. I have authored more than one scathing indictment of its flaws on this blog and elsewhere. I am like a banned list libertarian. Let my cards be played, I say! My issue with Top, isn't actually with Top. It is with neophyte players who have to top twice in one turn because they forgot what order they stacked the cards in. If you top excessively or at inconvenient times, forcing other players to wait while you stress your infant brain to the limits of its unfathomably small processing capacity,
There are certainly cards that I have willingly chosen not to play, like Triumph of the Hordes or Sinkhole, but I would never be so bold as to require others to abide by that choice.
Venser's Journalist- THMBS DOWN
This is no doubt a powerful card, and if put in the right decks (many designs around Karn and Arcanis come to mind), can be the catalyst for the "Screw you, I'm going to play my entire deck" combo.
But, I think people should know by now that combo decks need all the right pieces, and do not depend on one card. Therefore, the Top by itself is not unfair at all. There are plenty of cards that let you Scry, plenty of cards that let you draw, and plenty that let you do both of these multiple times. The Top is just more of a Swiss army knife when it comes to deck manipulation.
Uncle Landdrops- THUMBS DOWN
I'm a big proponent of practice and preparation. 9 times out of 10, my decks get some serious Magic Solitaire in so I can learn stuff, like, when to Top and what cards I need to draw at certain stages in the game. I'm with GG on this, but I'm more upset about the boisterous announcements that come to the table with "Play-With-Yourself" effects like this and cracking a Terramorphic. Cause even if I did have a Krosan Grip or a Trickbind, I'm sure as hell not using it on either one of those cards.
I have a little bit of empathy for this Top conundrum though. Overthinking is something I used to do, it's silly, and it probably means you're going to lose, so staring at the cards that aren't your answer won't do you any good anyway. If you do the leg work before you play the game, you can trust yourself better with information you have and make faster, more efficient plays, even if you make a mistake. After all, Top is a good card, but it isn't going to compensate for your bad Magic playing. So respect the card, respect your opponent, and if you aren't willing to do either, at least respect yourself.
Also, it's a total bummer we're not talking about Triumph of the Hordes. I was anticipating that and kind of looking forward to it.
UNCLE LANDDROPS' PICK
We banned Avacyn in our group late last year after the rules change, but even before that, I sold my copy and called it a day.
Even when I had one, I didn't really like it very much, but not enough to deem it ban-worthy. I'd actually played this in a Sigarda deck alongside Iona and proceeded to bring my Noob-ness to Theaters everywhere.
Between the fact that you can use her as a Commander, and the fact that there's now less ways to remove her and more ways to make non-interactive board states, I'm more surprised this hasn't been banned yet, and I'd be anxious to hear what Menery and Co. have to say about it. I feel like it has that "focus the game around me" quality that no one really liked about Sundering Titan, Primeval Titan, and now Sylvan Primordial, so I've no idea what could be holding this thing up from getting axed. Because playing this card right means not paying its mana cost, and not paying its mana cost is absurd, annoying, and abusive.
Grandpa Growth- THUMBS DOWN
At worst, it is a resilient, Flying threat. At best it is an 8-mana "I win". I am comfortable with the cost and effect of this card. This is the kind of thing that people want to do in Commander. This is what Commander is all about for some people. Flavorful and exciting 'Timmy' Creatures are much more palatable to most people than disruptive, 'griefer' cards like Terastodon. I would certainly agree it has the ability to change the pretense of the game and draw the attention of other players, the so-called "sub-game effect", but that is true of all cards that are inherently powerful. An 8-drop Creature SHOULD be able to change the texture of the game AND change the way your opponents play. Also of note: this is achieveable with virtually every Planeswalker, all of which are less expensive, save for Nicol Bolas. On balance, an NBP trumps an Avacyn basically every time so I don't really see the problem here. Annoying? Certainly, but that isn't a problem with the card, that is a problem with your friends.
Venser's Journalist- ONE THUMB UP, ONE THUMB DOWN
I appreciate this card in theory, and in practice, I find it to be alternatingly fun and annoying. GG nailed it by saying that an 8-drop creature should be powerful enough to be a game changer and Avacyn is certainly that. I will say though, she can be a real pain if you're on the wrong side of her. There are many ways to give Creatures like this Hexproof and Shroud so that nobody has a chance of removing her, or worse, using her against you. I admit that I'm one of those players that will make extra precautions like that, which can make a game 'unfair'.
The problem with that logic is that by the time anyone can play her AND pocket the game, you probably want someone to win. I've rarely seen Avacyn make it on the battlefield before turn ten, and even when she does come out early, someone has a way to exile or take control of her. Besides being game-changers, 8-drop creatures are meant to be challenges. As far as banning her back to the Helvault with Grizzly-brand, I'm on the fence right now.
VENSER'S JOURNALIST'S PICK
Admittedly, for the longest time I wanted this card in my Isperia's Thunderbolts deck, but the price deterred me from ever getting it. Now that I've seen Kira as both general and supplement to many Blue control decks, I'm certain that there is a level of grief this card produces that I'm not willing to put in any of my decks.
I first learned how evil this card could be when I saw it in a Talrand "Just Say NO" deck. The deck was already stuffed with counterspells, so when this spirit was slapped out on the field, I wanted to flip the table. It's not that the card is unfair; all you need to do to get around it is cast a second spell, but it's just so damn annoying that the second spell might not even be worth it if you look at your opponent's smile and his eight open Islands...
Uncle Landdrops- THUMBS DOWN
I got a copy of this card a while back, and I feel like it does nothing. I've played it, seen people play it, and I feel like if it's a problem in a metagame, it's simply because there aren't enough Wraths. There are so many ways to interact with Kira I don't see this as a problem.
Grandpa Growth- THUMBS DOWN
Landdrops brings up a good point here. If you have trouble with things like Kira or more generally: things that have Shroud, Hexproof, or Protection, then your real problem is that you are over-relying on spot removal. Even at face value, sweepers provide better card economy and fail less often. It is especially beneficial for multiplayer games where there are often multiple, pressing threats controlled by different players. The increased mana cost of sweepers is not usually as much of a hindrance in Commander as it would be in other formats.
The best solution to a Kira, or any early problem, is simply to be proactive. A turn one Thoughtseize will give you an early warning to tricky threats AND provide a way to stop them from hitting the battlefield.
Do you have a card that you believe should be banned? Do you agree or disagree with our thoughts? Let us know in the comments below!
Also, if you're interested in being a guest on The Stack, or you have some comments or ideas for future stacks or other Commander-related questions, be sure to email me at UncleLanddrops@gmail.com. I'm always around, and love to hear from the community.
Also, if you're interested in being a guest on The Stack, or you have some comments or ideas for future stacks or other Commander-related questions, be sure to email me at UncleLanddrops@gmail.com. I'm always around, and love to hear from the community.
Thanks again. Pass it up.
-UL/VJ/GG
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