Cause some cards get under our skin.
So when JohnnyCon suggested we put all our animosity on The Stack this week, I thought it'd be a good idea, though I'm not quite sure how all of us found our conclusions.
Zoners beware- the hate is heavy. If you don't believe me, just wait for my pick. I'm sure to be getting some responses there.
Anyway, you know what they say, "If you can't stand the hate, then get out of the kitchen."
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| Good 'Ol Palpy. |
VENSER'S JOURNALIST'S PICK
As someone who's big into hexproof, this card has always been my worst nightmare, at least since the advent of Glaring Spotlight. I first encountered this card in a token-sacrificing deck (thanks, Teysa 1.0) in only my fourth EDH game ever. Needless to say, I've had a long-standing beef with this enchant. You can counter every kill spell, give every creature hexproof, but at the end of the day, this grave, grave Grave Pact will eventually put your GoST on the chopping block.
Johnny Confidant- THUMBS UP
I play this in my Karador Deck, and while I don't seek this out for a win con it's something that is nice to have around. I love having this card. It's somewhat of a pain being at the wrong end of a sacrifice deck, and it only gets worse if it gets copied or two of them are on the field.
Uncle Landdrops- THUMBS UP
I can deal with this card. I'm not sold on it for my own decks, but I'd love it if you play it. I'd rather play Butcher of Malakir. Also, removal doesn't phase me in a game where I always have a castable Commander and ways to answer this card somewhere in my deck. Not losing sleep over this one.
Grandpa Growth- THUMBS UP
I am a huge griefer and love to play with evil, savage, cards that people hate. I am kind of down with this card. I don't really ever play it because I am not into the whole token/sac strategy. It's not my cup of tea, but it is powerful. This is the kind of investment card that really gets my goat because I rarely pack enchantment removal. To compensate, I have to play way more full-scale board sweepers than any fun person would allow.
JOHNNY CONFIDANT'S PICK
When I played my spellslinger Riku EDH at a shop one day, a guy slammed this in combination with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and I was stunned. Riku died, then the game dragged on for a boring half hour of Draw-Go.
Uncle Landdrops- THUMBS UP
I actually like silly things like this and Knowledge Pool. Though annoying, they shift the game at hand, forcing you to adapt to survive or else you lose. I've played this card once or twice with no egregious combos, like Guile or the previously mentioned Elesh Norn, but I like cards that change the game.
Venser's Journalist- THUMBS UP
This is by far my favorite U/W enchantment (with Steel of the Godhead running a close second), although I can see why it can be annoying. As someone who has played this card in EDH (my first Isperia deck build had this in it), I know how it can go awry, especially if your opponent decides, "Well, I guess my Omniscience will just have to give me ten birds now." The backlash of playing a card like this may actually be more annoying than being on the other side of the fence, unless you're the genius that also put Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in your deck as well.
Grandpa Growth- THUMBS? WHATEVER.
If this is your angle, go for it. No one plays more noncreature spells than me. My 6 creatures and I are not afraid, so I dare you. Just try it one time. You will be sorry, and you will never play this again. Cause if you want to win the game, you probably should have a win condition that doesn't involve giving your opponents 100-300 flying attackers.
On a separate note, I am down with the idea of this card. It's the execution that bothers me. A creature card typically results in one creature. Once you go to the effort of playing this, the counter spell your opponent was saving now makes two attackers. This is the worst sort of hope for a fair game. It promises to punish lopsided decks, but delivers only betrayal. I completely agree that this card is annoying. It fundamentally changes the game in a way that is neither fair nor interesting, but who is this even meant to punish? Humans?
GRANDPA GROWTH'S PICK
There is nothing quite as depressing to me as missing land drops. Crucible basically guarantees that you are going to be up on cards and never run out of lands to play. So silly and useless on its own, but also so valuable in conjunction with the right pieces. It is an indomitable defense against some of the filthiest pieces of disruption in the format. Armageddon? Joke. Strip Mine? I'll show you how to Strip Mine.
Venser's Journalist- THUMBS DOWN
My friend Marco has a saying about people who run Crucible: "They want to say 'look at how much money I have!'" I'd have to agree with him on that, mostly because Crucible seems rather limited in scope, too limited for $23.83 (price according to deckbox.org). Unless you're expecting land destruction, or plan on discarding lands with a Looter, I'd save this for the trade binder. I'll spend my $23.83 on more important things, like groceries or nine more Drogskol Reavers.
Johnny Confidant- THUMBS NEUTRAL
Tempo plays and recursion mixed into a heavy investment card doesn't sit well with me. I'm no stranger to pitching a land or two into my graveyard in light of a draw-discard effect but this seems to negate the drawback. Strip mine players and MLD decks love this card for regaining the field after you destroy your mana base, but perhaps I just don't have enough experience with LD plays. I'll admit though that if I were into land destruction that this would be something I'd use.
Uncle Landdrops- THUMBS UP
This is a uniquely functional piece that's more than just a money card in a GoodStuffs deck, or a You Make The Card commodity. Simply having a copy doesn't mean you're good and know how to use it though, so I can agree in VJ's sentiments that way.
Honestly, if you're playing it right, you're actually spending more money on the fetches and Strip Mine-style cards you need to abuse it. Or maybe you're like me, and started playing Magic at the right time to get the Zenny fetches, and had brilliant players around you who said to hold them.
Also, I got my copy pre-Modern for $10 or $15 for my Oros land destruction deck, where this card was vital to rebuilding quicker than your opponent. And nine Reavers and a few groceries weren't gonna get me my lands back. This card is value and valuable to decks, regardless of price. Just gotta use it right.
UNCLE LANDDROPS' PICK
To quote Charlie Murphy, "I wish I had four thumbs, so I could give this four Thumbs Down."
I dread the day I have to play against Treachery. I hate the majority of this card type and this is the worst of 'em all. Corrupted Conscience is about the only one that can be justified, as it ends games and can be used on your own guys creatively.
I'm not opposed to taking creatures or other permanents. It's a part of the game that is very good and can be fun when it's done properly. I really favor Helm of Possession and Vedalken Shackles more than the latter though. They have sufficient trade-offs and test skill, as do Roil Elemental, Rubinia, and Merieke.
But Control Magic, Enslave, Confiscate- every other version of this card is cheap and ultramega-lame. To me, playing these cards demonstrates a lack of skill and creativity in deck design, regardless of any "card advantage" argument that can be made. They ruin games, and pave the way for lackluster Commander games.
I don't hate a lot of cards, and I mostly play through games to see what happens, but I've scooped to these a few times in my life. Not even a good EDH player can play around this AND counterspell backup. There's no point when someone chooses to play this way, because it means they're not interested in playing EDH. They're trying to mentally abuse you, which is a circle of hell that's not Poker or Commander, but actually more akin to what America did in GitMo.
Johnny Confidant- THUMBS UP
Stealing a creature for five is the norm for this spell, but Treachery takes that into the next level by reimbursing you for your investment. I'm not a fan of Untap "x" lands creature spells such as Palinchron and the like for infinite mana shenanigans but these Non-creature spells are more than approved. If your opponent doesn't answer this it's all on him.
Venser's Journalist- THUMBS UP
As both a Magic player and a writer, I'll agree with UL that taking other people's ideas (or in Treachery's case, creatures) is not cool. Nonetheless, this is one of the most efficient Mind Controls in existence, and it serves as the biggest middle finger to anyone who dares to put the super-unfun Ulamog or Kozilek in an EDH deck, and that, planeswalkers, is the only reason why I would put Treachery in blue EDH decks. It's like Oblivion Ring, only more ironic.
Grandpa Growth- THUMBS UP
I am going to take credit for 90% of Landdrops' ire for this entire family of cards. I love this card. I have a Bruna deck that has all 9 of these cards. So let's move on to something more interesting. I have never heard anyone accuse Vedalken Shackles of being more fun/fair/what have you than the "control suite". Certainly not what I would call a skill tester.
Don't get me wrong. Treachery isn't a skill tester either. Unoriginal? Sure, but remember: there is a finite number of cards. All of which are publicly available and can be viewed at your leisure. There is no such thing as original in a game like this. If you're doing it, it's been done.
So, you guys remember back in Urza's block when R&D had no idea what tempo was? When no one had written essays and books about leveraging it? When mathematical formulas hadn't yet confirmed the existence of classical advantage theory for Magic? When I wasn't asking hypothetical questions yet? If I could go back to that time, I would stop them from printing Treachery. Having cast this card probably a thousand times, I would burn the Destiny design file. This is a serious oversight that is neither constructive nor healthy for the game.
I think we have all had a rough day talking about these cards that I love. Let's unwind by listening to Evan Erwin sing the Blue's Clue(stone) theme song, shall we?
http://youtu.be/usdQ36lmysI?t=47m43s
Since GG wrote through the week, VJ will be up tomorrow with a list for the new(er) Isperia. It's been a while since VJ had some non-Stack stuff, so be sure to check it out!
The schedule for the week will be back to normal, so look for me and JohnnyCon to find our way back into your Tuesday and Thursday. We've got the Summer in sight, so look for a bunch of sweet stuff here on TGZ.
Time to sign off with something ironic.
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| The way cuter Emperor Cat-patine doesn't take shit from nobody |
-UL and the Gang
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